Accessing more than: cluster

Showing posts with label cluster. Show all posts

Thursday, March 29, 2012

Adding a resource (Generic Script) to the SQL Cluster

I would like to add a VB Script to the SQL Cluster so that
in the event of a failover the script will execute on the
new active node. The script goes out and checks for the
existance of some key files once a day.
I am running Windows 2003 SQL 2000 in an Active / Passive
configuration.
I have the VBS running every morning through task Mgr, but
I would like to get it configured to run as a clustered
resource and failover to the active node.
Thanks,
In 2003, there is a "Generic Script" resource type that support VBS and Perl
scripts. Check out the following for more details:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...ric_script.asp
Regards,
John
"Rodney" <anonymous@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:441301c47333$a3be4aa0$a601280a@.phx.gbl...
> I would like to add a VB Script to the SQL Cluster so that
> in the event of a failover the script will execute on the
> new active node. The script goes out and checks for the
> existance of some key files once a day.
> I am running Windows 2003 SQL 2000 in an Active / Passive
> configuration.
> I have the VBS running every morning through task Mgr, but
> I would like to get it configured to run as a clustered
> resource and failover to the active node.
> Thanks,

Tuesday, March 27, 2012

adding a new sql server node to an existing sql cluster

I currently have a single node SQL 2000 cluster running on 2003 Server. I now
want to add the second node, but want to make sure I fully understand the
process. I run the SQL setup from the new node and select the advanced option
for failover clustering. It all seems very straight forward, but I want to be
sure. Does this cause the clustered SQL instance to be restarted, or is there
no outage?
Any help confirming this would be appreciated.
The cluster won't restart when you add a new node. Be sure to add the SQL
service pack to the new node while the *OLD* node owns the SQL Server
resource. This will simply add the binaries to the new node without
interrupting SQL. If you need to add a hotfix, however, you'll have to do
that on the mode that owns SQL Server. Therefore, you'll have to failover
to the new node and add the hotfix from there.
Tom
Thomas A. Moreau, BSc, PhD, MCSE, MCDBA
SQL Server MVP
Columnist, SQL Server Professional
Toronto, ON Canada
www.pinpub.com
..
"Stephan" <Stephan@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:48266C9D-90DC-418B-B3FA-9B91FA8A9E04@.microsoft.com...
I currently have a single node SQL 2000 cluster running on 2003 Server. I
now
want to add the second node, but want to make sure I fully understand the
process. I run the SQL setup from the new node and select the advanced
option
for failover clustering. It all seems very straight forward, but I want to
be
sure. Does this cause the clustered SQL instance to be restarted, or is
there
no outage?
Any help confirming this would be appreciated.
|||Thanks, Tom, that's what I thought.
"Tom Moreau" wrote:

> The cluster won't restart when you add a new node. Be sure to add the SQL
> service pack to the new node while the *OLD* node owns the SQL Server
> resource. This will simply add the binaries to the new node without
> interrupting SQL. If you need to add a hotfix, however, you'll have to do
> that on the mode that owns SQL Server. Therefore, you'll have to failover
> to the new node and add the hotfix from there.
> --
> Tom
> ----
> Thomas A. Moreau, BSc, PhD, MCSE, MCDBA
> SQL Server MVP
> Columnist, SQL Server Professional
> Toronto, ON Canada
> www.pinpub.com
> ..
> "Stephan" <Stephan@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:48266C9D-90DC-418B-B3FA-9B91FA8A9E04@.microsoft.com...
> I currently have a single node SQL 2000 cluster running on 2003 Server. I
> now
> want to add the second node, but want to make sure I fully understand the
> process. I run the SQL setup from the new node and select the advanced
> option
> for failover clustering. It all seems very straight forward, but I want to
> be
> sure. Does this cause the clustered SQL instance to be restarted, or is
> there
> no outage?
> Any help confirming this would be appreciated.
>

Adding a new node to an existing cluster

I currently have two clustered servers. OS - Windows 2003 (SP1), SQL 2000.
These servers are getting old so what I wanted to do is add two new servers
to the cluster and take the original two offline. I have loaded the new
servers, connected them to our sans, and added them to the cluster. I am at
the point of loading SQL. I have read the books on line and according to BOL,
I should be able to "On the Cluster Management screen, select the node and
click Add'. However, I am not given the option, ALL four servers show up in
the "configured nodes" list. What my question is, if I continue, will ALL
servers be loaded/reloaded with SQL or just the top server (the one I am
trying to load).
You will add SQL to the new servers only, just watch the install screen
carefully, cause you can also uninstall the original two nodes

Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.itsummitseries.com/experts/fournier.htm - Cluster Summit
"Marilyn" <Marilyn@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:96494E06-031A-4370-B2AA-C8615627E5FD@.microsoft.com...
>I currently have two clustered servers. OS - Windows 2003 (SP1), SQL 2000.
> These servers are getting old so what I wanted to do is add two new
> servers
> to the cluster and take the original two offline. I have loaded the new
> servers, connected them to our sans, and added them to the cluster. I am
> at
> the point of loading SQL. I have read the books on line and according to
> BOL,
> I should be able to "On the Cluster Management screen, select the node and
> click Add'. However, I am not given the option, ALL four servers show up
> in
> the "configured nodes" list. What my question is, if I continue, will ALL
> servers be loaded/reloaded with SQL or just the top server (the one I am
> trying to load).
|||That is what I am worried about...
I do NOT want to uninstall SQL from the existing nodes. What specifically
should I keep my eye out for?
"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" wrote:

> You will add SQL to the new servers only, just watch the install screen
> carefully, cause you can also uninstall the original two nodes

> Cheers,
> Rod
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
> http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
> http://www.itsummitseries.com/experts/fournier.htm - Cluster Summit
> "Marilyn" <Marilyn@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:96494E06-031A-4370-B2AA-C8615627E5FD@.microsoft.com...
>
>
|||Make sure you install from one of the new machines.
Make sure you have someone standing over your shoulder watching the screens
and double checking your work.
Make sure you select ADD and see the server move to the right side (which
means they will be installed).
Make sure think about any and all defaults (this is how I uninstalled my one
node SQL Cluster a few months back, instead of adding a node).
It's very easy to either do it correctly or incorrectly. Like I said, have
someone double check the screen BEFORE you hit next and all should go well.
Lastly make sure you have a good restore on hand. Yes, I said restore, cause
a backup is worthless, unless you can and have actually tried restoring it.
I hate that people brag about backups, brag about restoring

Or don't brag
about either, cause lack of either is a firing offense in my book. Ok, I am
off my soap box!
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.itsummitseries.com/experts/fournier.htm - Cluster Summit
"Marilyn" <Marilyn@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A8424504-3A78-4E91-B18B-42B76B18C8F8@.microsoft.com...[vbcol=seagreen]
> That is what I am worried about...
> I do NOT want to uninstall SQL from the existing nodes. What specifically
> should I keep my eye out for?
> "Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" wrote:
|||Thank you so much. I understand, however where you say "Make sure you select
ADD and see the server move to the right side (which means they will be
installed)." That was my problem, all four servers are ALREADY on the right
side.
P.S. I am in full agreement on the backup part... ;-)
"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" wrote:

> Make sure you install from one of the new machines.
> Make sure you have someone standing over your shoulder watching the screens
> and double checking your work.
> Make sure you select ADD and see the server move to the right side (which
> means they will be installed).
> Make sure think about any and all defaults (this is how I uninstalled my one
> node SQL Cluster a few months back, instead of adding a node).
> It's very easy to either do it correctly or incorrectly. Like I said, have
> someone double check the screen BEFORE you hit next and all should go well.
> Lastly make sure you have a good restore on hand. Yes, I said restore, cause
> a backup is worthless, unless you can and have actually tried restoring it.
> I hate that people brag about backups, brag about restoring

Or don't brag
> about either, cause lack of either is a firing offense in my book. Ok, I am
> off my soap box!
> Cheers,
> Rod
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
> http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
> http://www.itsummitseries.com/experts/fournier.htm - Cluster Summit
> "Marilyn" <Marilyn@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:A8424504-3A78-4E91-B18B-42B76B18C8F8@.microsoft.com...
>
>
|||For more information about adding a node to a virtual server, refer to the
"How to add nodes to an existing virtual server (Setup)" topic in SQL Server
2000 Books Online.
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://www.msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.itsummitseries.com/experts/fournier.htm - Cluster Summit
"Marilyn" <Marilyn@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:392A3D50-7EFA-4C36-82AB-0D74BE1ABB79@.microsoft.com...[vbcol=seagreen]
> Thank you so much. I understand, however where you say "Make sure you
> select
> ADD and see the server move to the right side (which means they will be
> installed)." That was my problem, all four servers are ALREADY on the
> right
> side.
> P.S. I am in full agreement on the backup part... ;-)
>
> "Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" wrote:
|||Marilyn
Make sure your specifying the correct SQL Virtual Server name. It sounds
like you might be accidently trying to install a new instance of SQL and all
nodes are showing up.
Are you selecting the "Advanced Options" and getting the option to
"Maintain a Virtual Server for Failover Clustering" the Virtual Server? If
not then your more than likely attempting to install a new instance of SQL.
Regards
cT
"Marilyn" wrote:

> I currently have two clustered servers. OS - Windows 2003 (SP1), SQL 2000.
> These servers are getting old so what I wanted to do is add two new servers
> to the cluster and take the original two offline. I have loaded the new
> servers, connected them to our sans, and added them to the cluster. I am at
> the point of loading SQL. I have read the books on line and according to BOL,
> I should be able to "On the Cluster Management screen, select the node and
> click Add'. However, I am not given the option, ALL four servers show up in
> the "configured nodes" list. What my question is, if I continue, will ALL
> servers be loaded/reloaded with SQL or just the top server (the one I am
> trying to load).
|||I got it! I just went for it. It took about 10 minutes to load with no
problems at all. Thanks for the help and advice. I'm really glad Microsoft
has these newsgroups. I have used them serveral times to find additional
suggestions and ideas. Thanks again. M ;-)
"Charles Tolento" wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Marilyn
> Make sure your specifying the correct SQL Virtual Server name. It sounds
> like you might be accidently trying to install a new instance of SQL and all
> nodes are showing up.
> Are you selecting the "Advanced Options" and getting the option to
> "Maintain a Virtual Server for Failover Clustering" the Virtual Server? If
> not then your more than likely attempting to install a new instance of SQL.
> Regards
> cT
> "Marilyn" wrote:

Adding a new node to a SQL server cluster

I need to add a second node to a SQL Server Cluster.
What i have to do?
I have join the second node using Cluster Administrator.
I don't see any resource..
I need to manually recreate disks resources in Cluster Administrator?
I need to reinstall SQL Server?
Thanks.
Follow the instructions in BOL. Look up 'Maintaining a Failover Cluster'.
You will need to re-run the SQL installer, but if you follow the steps
correctly, all it will do is bring in the new node. Don't forget to reapply
any service packs and hotfixes after the base install.
Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator
Careerbuilder.com
I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
www.sqlpass.org
"SP" <spupilli@.infinito.it> wrote in message
news:eGBS4kUeEHA.2352@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> I need to add a second node to a SQL Server Cluster.
> What i have to do?
> I have join the second node using Cluster Administrator.
> I don't see any resource..
> I need to manually recreate disks resources in Cluster Administrator?
> I need to reinstall SQL Server?
> Thanks.
>
|||Hi
What version of Windows and SQL are you running on?
How is your SAN configured?
..
--
Mike Epprecht, Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Johannesburg, South Africa
Mobile: +27-82-552-0268
IM: mike@.epprecht.net
MVP Program: http://www.microsoft.com/mvp
Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/epprecht/
"SP" <spupilli@.infinito.it> wrote in message
news:eGBS4kUeEHA.2352@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> I need to add a second node to a SQL Server Cluster.
> What i have to do?
> I have join the second node using Cluster Administrator.
> I don't see any resource..
> I need to manually recreate disks resources in Cluster Administrator?
> I need to reinstall SQL Server?
> Thanks.
>
|||I'using VMWare Workstation 4.5 to test thesolution. I'll make the real
cluster the next week.
I'm using SQL Server 2000 Ent. Edition and Windows Server 2003 Ent. Edition.
Thanks.
"Mike Epprecht (SQL MVP)" <mike@.epprecht.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:u1OSlzWeEHA.1604@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Hi
> What version of Windows and SQL are you running on?
> How is your SAN configured?
> .
> --
> --
> Mike Epprecht, Microsoft SQL Server MVP
> Johannesburg, South Africa
> Mobile: +27-82-552-0268
> IM: mike@.epprecht.net
> MVP Program: http://www.microsoft.com/mvp
> Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/epprecht/
> "SP" <spupilli@.infinito.it> wrote in message
> news:eGBS4kUeEHA.2352@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
|||Here is how you add a new node [As per SQL Server BOL topic "How to add nodes to an existing virtual server (Setup)"]
On the Welcome screen of the Microsoft SQL Server Installation Wizard, click Next.
On the Computer Name screen, click Virtual Server and specify the virtual server to which you want to add a node. Click Next.
On the Installation Selection screen, click Advanced options. Click Next.
On the Advanced Options screen, click Maintain a virtual server for failover clustering. Click Next.
On the Failover Clustering screen, click Next.
You do not need to enter an IP address.
On the Cluster Management screen, select the node and click Add.
If the node is listed as unavailable, you must modify the disk resources in the cluster group of the virtual server so the disk is available for the node you want to add to the
Microsoft SQL Server configuration. Click Next.
On the Remote Information screen, enter login credentials for the remote cluster node that has administrator privileges on the remote node of the cluster. Click Next.
On the Setup Complete screen, click Finish.
After this you will need to reapply any SQL Server service packs, security patches/hotfixes that you had applied to the virtual sql instance.
HTH,
Best Regards,
Uttam Parui
Microsoft Corporation
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Are you secure? For information about the Strategic Technology Protection Program and to order your FREE Security Tool Kit, please visit
http://www.microsoft.com/security.
Microsoft highly recommends that users with Internet access update their Microsoft software to better protect against viruses and security vulnerabilities. The easiest way
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|||How did you set it up in VMWare? I want to test a node active/passive
Windows 2003 cluster with SQL 2000. Do you know any good guides for doing
this? I am new to clusters :/
Best regards
Niklas E
"SP" <spupilli@.infinito.it> wrote in message
news:%23$kxl6WeEHA.3428@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> I'using VMWare Workstation 4.5 to test thesolution. I'll make the real
> cluster the next week.
> I'm using SQL Server 2000 Ent. Edition and Windows Server 2003 Ent.
> Edition.
> Thanks.
> "Mike Epprecht (SQL MVP)" <mike@.epprecht.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:u1OSlzWeEHA.1604@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>
|||The VMWARE web site explains setting up a cluster in a box. The idea is to
create two virtual computers and a shared virtual drives.
http://www.vmware.com/support/gsx25/...erbox_gsx.html
"VMware GSX Server 2.5.2"
Chris Skorlinski
Microsoft SQL Server Support
Please reply directly to the thread with any updates.
This posting is provided "as is" with no warranties and confers no rights.

Adding a new node to a pre-existing sql2K cluster

Hi,
I have inherited a windows 2003 cluster which had SQL 2000 initially
installedon on only one of the two nodes due to a hardware issue which
since been corrected.
I need to add the second node to the SQL2000 cluster instalation only
the documentation on this is very weak.
My production SQL virtual server is already on SP4 but this new node
will have to be done from SP2. Any help or instructions would be geatly
appreciated.
Thank you in advance,
Ken
Here's my notes on SP's and clusters, the hyperlinks are in blue at thend of
the document.
Nik Marshall-Blank MCSD/MCDBA
Linz, Austria
"kenb" <kbunce@.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130543443.479453.69900@.z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> Hi,
> I have inherited a windows 2003 cluster which had SQL 2000 initially
> installedon on only one of the two nodes due to a hardware issue which
> since been corrected.
> I need to add the second node to the SQL2000 cluster instalation only
> the documentation on this is very weak.
> My production SQL virtual server is already on SP4 but this new node
> will have to be done from SP2. Any help or instructions would be geatly
> appreciated.
> Thank you in advance,
> Ken
>
begin 666 Cluster.doc
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end

Sunday, March 11, 2012

Add SQL Server 2005 nodes to a SQL2000 cluster

I am trying to add 2 2005 nodes to an existing cluster that has 2xSQL2000
nodes. The cluster is using a SAN with - T, U drives as data and log in node
1, and - V, W drives as data and log in node 2
I want to add SQL2005 nodes, using these drives. When I start the install -
using wizard - I check the box to create a new virtual server (If I leave it
unchecked the install is not cluster aware)
When I get to the step re cluster group resource, I cannot use any of the
drives as they are in use by the existing virtual server.
I tried making a new group, but when I do that I cannot assign the existing
drives to the new groups.
How does one normally acheive this without rebuilding the SAN to add in
extra partitions? Has anyone seen any effective resources about how to do
this?
Thanks
Geoff Tanner
YOu can't add SQL2005 nodes to a SQL2000 cluster and keep two nodes SQL2005
and the other two nodes SQL2000. It's not supported, and makes no business
sense.
Linchi
"Geoff Tanner" wrote:

> I am trying to add 2 2005 nodes to an existing cluster that has 2xSQL2000
> nodes. The cluster is using a SAN with - T, U drives as data and log in node
> 1, and - V, W drives as data and log in node 2
> I want to add SQL2005 nodes, using these drives. When I start the install -
> using wizard - I check the box to create a new virtual server (If I leave it
> unchecked the install is not cluster aware)
> When I get to the step re cluster group resource, I cannot use any of the
> drives as they are in use by the existing virtual server.
> I tried making a new group, but when I do that I cannot assign the existing
> drives to the new groups.
> How does one normally acheive this without rebuilding the SAN to add in
> extra partitions? Has anyone seen any effective resources about how to do
> this?
> Thanks
> Geoff Tanner

Add SAN Disk Resource to Active/Active SQL cluster

Looking to see if I am missing any steps below to adding a SAN disk
resource to an Active/Active SQL cluster:
-Create Volumes
-Present LUNs to both Nodes
-Failover Cluster Groups to Node2
-On Node1
Disable ClusDisk
Disable Cluster Services
Reboot Node1
Rescan for hardware changes
Write the disk signature
Set disk to basic
Create Partition
Assign Drive Letter
Enable ClusDisk
Enable Cluster Services
Reboot Node1
-On Node2
Failover Cluster Groups to Node1
Disable ClusDisk
Disable Cluster Services
Reboot Node2
Rescan for hardware changes
Assign Drive Letter
Enable ClusDisk
Enable Cluster Services
Reboot Node2
-Assign disk resource to Cluster Groups
-On Node1
Take SQL Server Resource offline
Add SQL Server Resource dependency to disk resource
Bring SQL Server Resource online
-On Node2
Repeat above
-Test failover
Thanks,
Ian in SD
With Windows 2003 as the host, you may be able to skip some of the reboots.
You can rescan the disk list and pick up newly added disks. I have never
had to disable or stop the cluster service to pick up new disks. I do make
sure and do all the work on a node that does not currently host any cluster
resources. Once I am done, I can rescan the disk list on the other node(s)
and failover at will. If you have the downtime, the reboots won't hurt, but
they may not be necessary.
Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
<theredmiata@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142967852.423752.294080@.i39g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> Looking to see if I am missing any steps below to adding a SAN disk
> resource to an Active/Active SQL cluster:
>
> -Create Volumes
> -Present LUNs to both Nodes
> -Failover Cluster Groups to Node2
> -On Node1
> Disable ClusDisk
> Disable Cluster Services
> Reboot Node1
> Rescan for hardware changes
> Write the disk signature
> Set disk to basic
> Create Partition
> Assign Drive Letter
> Enable ClusDisk
> Enable Cluster Services
> Reboot Node1
> -On Node2
> Failover Cluster Groups to Node1
> Disable ClusDisk
> Disable Cluster Services
> Reboot Node2
> Rescan for hardware changes
> Assign Drive Letter
> Enable ClusDisk
> Enable Cluster Services
> Reboot Node2
> -Assign disk resource to Cluster Groups
> -On Node1
> Take SQL Server Resource offline
> Add SQL Server Resource dependency to disk resource
> Bring SQL Server Resource online
> -On Node2
> Repeat above
> -Test failover
> Thanks,
> Ian in SD
>
|||Thanks for the reply Geoff. This the first time for this process as we
are trying to split the file groups and would like to have each group
on a seperate volume.

add Reporting Services to an existing cluster

We have set up SQL Server 2005 failover cluster with 2 nodes, on Windows 2003. I'm now trying to add Reporting Services. I don't see any documentation for how to do this. Is it similar to adding Analysis Services? If I use this command I'm not sure what to put in several paramaters:

start /wait c:\<path-to-setup>\setup.exe /qn VS=<my-virtual-server-name> INSTALL=RS_Server INSTANCENAME=MSSQLSERVER ADDLOCAL=RS_Server ADDNODE=n GROUP="Cluster Group" IP="111.11.11.11,<my-virtual-server-name" ADMINPASSWORD=xxxx SAPWD=xxxx INSTALLSQLDIR=c INSTALLSQLDATADIR=c RSACCOUNT=mmm\xxxxx RSPASSWORD=<domain-user-psswd> SQLBROWSERACCOUNT=<mmm\xxxxx> SQLBROWSERPASSWORD=<domain-user-psswd> SQLREPORTING=1

My question are for:

IP: do i just put the virtual ip and name here, or every ip in the node?

INSTALLSQLDIR: is c drive correct here, or what is this?

INSTALLSQLDATADIR: is c drive correct here, or what is this?

RSACCOUNT: is this correct, not in the example in document ms144259 and what should go here?

RSPASSWORD: same as above

SQLBROWSERACCOUNT: what goes here?

SQLBROWSERPASSWORD: same as above

Thanks so much for any help.

I have a erlated question. Would I add Reporting Services like they way you add Integration Services? Using Add/Remove programs? If so, When I try that the choice of Reporting Services is blanked out, not available as a choice to install. How could I get that? Thanks!|||

Reporting Service cannot be installed as a virtual service, i.e., it is not a cluster-component. It can be only installed as a standalone instance. You can add it to an installed instance if that instance does not include Reporting Service. Or you can install it in another new instance. So the command line should be like

start /wait setup.exe /qb ADDLOCAL=RS_Server,RS_Web_Interface INSTANCENAME="xxxxx" RSACCOUNT="<domain\account>" RSPASSWORD="<strong password>" SQLBROWSERACCOUNT="<doemain\account>" SQLBROWSERPASSWORD="<strong password>" RSAUTOSTART=1 SQLBROWSERAUTOSTART=1

See BOL for more information related to command line or template.ini file for more sample command lines.

Thursday, March 8, 2012

add Reporting Services to an existing cluster

My question are for:

IP: do i just put the virtual ip and name here, or every ip in the node?

INSTALLSQLDIR: is c drive correct here, or what is this?

INSTALLSQLDATADIR: is c drive correct here, or what is this?

RSACCOUNT: is this correct, not in the example in document ms144259 and what should go here?

RSPASSWORD: same as above

SQLBROWSERACCOUNT: what goes here?

SQLBROWSERPASSWORD: same as above

Thanks so much for any help.

See BOL for more information related to command line or template.ini file for more sample command lines.

Tuesday, March 6, 2012

Add new cluster and use existing LUN's?

Hi All,
We have a Win2003 Enterprise/SQL 2000 "active/passive" cluster, and we want
to split a few larger DB's off to a seperate and new "active/passive"
cluster. The reason for the split is to allow this new cluster to control
the one application and the other cluster to control the existing app.
Currently we have:
SQL LUN occupying 4 Raid 10 disks with 175 GB assigned to this LUN. Doing
the math leaves us with appx. 225 GB left on these 4 discs that is
unnassigned and unformatted.
T-log/Quorum LUN occupying 2 Raid 10 disks with all of the space assigned to
this LUN (appx 134 GB).
We are most likely not going to utilize the entire 175 GB for the data
collection side let alone the additional 225 GB. At what impact to the disk
I/O are we going to suffer if we create the new a/p cluster using a newly
assigned LUN that occupies the previously unformatted 225 GB on the SQL data
disks? So essentially we would have 2 seperate virtual servers operating off
of the same spindles, however 2 different LUN's. My gut feeling says that we
would take some type of I/O performance hit since 2 seperate high I/O
applications are accessing the same spindles. We would however have 2 new
RAID 10 disks for the t-logs and quorum of the new cluster and since they are
the highest I/O portion of SQL and would not be sharing this is the only
reason I think the idea may be feasible.
The reasons for trying to use the unformatted space on those 4 spindles is:
A) The data collection app already running on those spindles in the 175 GB
space is never going to use all of that space (it is using 50 GB currently
and at least half of that is the other app we want to split off). So a
future of adding the 225 GB as a metalun to the existing SQL LUN is slim to
nill.
B) We are hosed on that 225 GB of space for eternity really. If we can't
use it for another SQL cluster I don't think there is anyway we would use it
for file storage for example. That is based on my opinion...I have a hard
time believing it is okay to add another set of SQL data let alone file data.
C) We only have 3 slots left in the first SAN cabinet. We will be using 2
of those for a RAID 10 t-log setup for the new SQL cluster so that leaves us
with 1 drive space open for the new SQL cluster data which=impossible. So
now we not only have to buy additional drives but also a new cabinet and all
associated hardware.
Keep in mind our main goal here is the processing power. Our existing
cluster's processor is by no means outdated, but the data collection AND
reporting runs at the same time are causing slow downs due to processing
requests from many different applications. If reporting were on it's own
cluster that means it has its own server to beat up on and our clients don't
notice delays in web surveys or IVR calls when the daily reports are being
aggregated.
Any help provided is greatly appreciated.
You need to stress test, look at the results, and then test some more.
Testing will tell you what the correct answer is for your environment.
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
"skyline" <skyline@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:18DB25CC-37FC-4FEF-AF56-64696BE9D0B8@.microsoft.com...
> Hi All,
> We have a Win2003 Enterprise/SQL 2000 "active/passive" cluster, and we
> want
> to split a few larger DB's off to a seperate and new "active/passive"
> cluster. The reason for the split is to allow this new cluster to control
> the one application and the other cluster to control the existing app.
> Currently we have:
> SQL LUN occupying 4 Raid 10 disks with 175 GB assigned to this LUN. Doing
> the math leaves us with appx. 225 GB left on these 4 discs that is
> unnassigned and unformatted.
> T-log/Quorum LUN occupying 2 Raid 10 disks with all of the space assigned
> to
> this LUN (appx 134 GB).
> We are most likely not going to utilize the entire 175 GB for the data
> collection side let alone the additional 225 GB. At what impact to the
> disk
> I/O are we going to suffer if we create the new a/p cluster using a newly
> assigned LUN that occupies the previously unformatted 225 GB on the SQL
> data
> disks? So essentially we would have 2 seperate virtual servers operating
> off
> of the same spindles, however 2 different LUN's. My gut feeling says that
> we
> would take some type of I/O performance hit since 2 seperate high I/O
> applications are accessing the same spindles. We would however have 2 new
> RAID 10 disks for the t-logs and quorum of the new cluster and since they
> are
> the highest I/O portion of SQL and would not be sharing this is the only
> reason I think the idea may be feasible.
> The reasons for trying to use the unformatted space on those 4 spindles
> is:
> A) The data collection app already running on those spindles in the 175
> GB
> space is never going to use all of that space (it is using 50 GB currently
> and at least half of that is the other app we want to split off). So a
> future of adding the 225 GB as a metalun to the existing SQL LUN is slim
> to
> nill.
> B) We are hosed on that 225 GB of space for eternity really. If we can't
> use it for another SQL cluster I don't think there is anyway we would use
> it
> for file storage for example. That is based on my opinion...I have a hard
> time believing it is okay to add another set of SQL data let alone file
> data.
> C) We only have 3 slots left in the first SAN cabinet. We will be using 2
> of those for a RAID 10 t-log setup for the new SQL cluster so that leaves
> us
> with 1 drive space open for the new SQL cluster data which=impossible. So
> now we not only have to buy additional drives but also a new cabinet and
> all
> associated hardware.
> Keep in mind our main goal here is the processing power. Our existing
> cluster's processor is by no means outdated, but the data collection AND
> reporting runs at the same time are causing slow downs due to processing
> requests from many different applications. If reporting were on it's own
> cluster that means it has its own server to beat up on and our clients
> don't
> notice delays in web surveys or IVR calls when the daily reports are being
> aggregated.
> Any help provided is greatly appreciated.
|||I realize that testing is the ideal way to come to the complete conclusion on
our pathway but my first and foremost question really is has anyone
successfully used a set of drives and have 2 luns for 2 different virtual
servers on that same set of drives?
I'd like to know if I am doing something "average" or if the general
consensus is against such an idea. That helps me to determine how much of a
possibility this really becomes and how much money I will be spending.
Thanks for your input thusfar.
"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" wrote:

> You need to stress test, look at the results, and then test some more.
> Testing will tell you what the correct answer is for your environment.
> Cheers,
> Rod
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
> http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
> http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
> "skyline" <skyline@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:18DB25CC-37FC-4FEF-AF56-64696BE9D0B8@.microsoft.com...
>
>
|||It depends on the SAN. You may not be allowed to share the drives with
different servers.
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
"skyline" <skyline@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A4415101-D95B-4871-A666-4D4A2497275F@.microsoft.com...[vbcol=seagreen]
>I realize that testing is the ideal way to come to the complete conclusion
>on
> our pathway but my first and foremost question really is has anyone
> successfully used a set of drives and have 2 luns for 2 different virtual
> servers on that same set of drives?
> I'd like to know if I am doing something "average" or if the general
> consensus is against such an idea. That helps me to determine how much of
> a
> possibility this really becomes and how much money I will be spending.
> Thanks for your input thusfar.
> "Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" wrote:
|||The SAN is indeed capable. Creating a LUN out of the 225 GB of unformatted
data and assigning it to the new SQL server storage group is quick and easy.
The first 5 drives of our SAN share the system binaries, Snapview reserved
LUN's, and 3 additional LUN's all set as RAID 5 (making a total of 509 GB
divided between several different LUN's.) It is possible to share the same
drives with more than one server, however you can't share one LUN with more
than 1 server.
However we would have 1 virtual server accessing the original LUN of 175 GB
and the other virtual server accessing the newly created LUN of 225 GB--my
only hang up being the fact that the 2 LUN's exist on the same set of 4
drives and if you have 2 completely independent SQL servers accessing the
same drives is it going to put a hurt on performance. Again, t-logs stay
seperate (IE the 2 virtual servers would not be sharing the t-log drives,
they would each have their seperate set of RAID 10 drives) so that is my only
saving grace thinking this implementation may be possible.
I am here because I need a second opinion (and 3rd or 4ths if possible) from
some higher SQL guru's. I personally am the Net Admin so my SQL experience
is not broad however I understand the concept of the SAN well and know what I
am looking to do with the SQL servers.
Thanks!
"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" wrote:

> It depends on the SAN. You may not be allowed to share the drives with
> different servers.
> Cheers,
> Rod
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
> http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
> http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
> "skyline" <skyline@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:A4415101-D95B-4871-A666-4D4A2497275F@.microsoft.com...
>
>
|||Even a SAN has a maximum I/O capacity. Whether you are I/O bound on the
disks in question will determine whether using the remaining space will
impact your current system performance. Your SAN vendor (EMC from the hints
you dropped) should have tools (likely for an additional fee) that can
measure IO at the LUN/RAID set/disk level. You will definitely need that
capability in order to measure the impact of your proposed change. A quick
test would be to run a simulated SQL I/O load on the newly created LUNs
while monitoring I/O performance at the SQL, OS, and SAN levels. Do the
same without the load and see how much you can get away with.
Personally, I prefer to use LUNS that map one-to-one to RAID Sets, mostly to
avoid this problem. Since that isn't a real option now, you may want to
consider purchasing an additional drive tray. It isn't the cheapest
solution, but it may be the most effective.
BTW, you can share a LUN with more than one server. That is how a cluster
is built. Access Logix whines about it but you can force it to do what you
need. .
Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
"skyline" <skyline@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DA48AC82-6A9F-4738-BDB6-08D10D16EAB4@.microsoft.com...[vbcol=seagreen]
> The SAN is indeed capable. Creating a LUN out of the 225 GB of
> unformatted
> data and assigning it to the new SQL server storage group is quick and
> easy.
> The first 5 drives of our SAN share the system binaries, Snapview reserved
> LUN's, and 3 additional LUN's all set as RAID 5 (making a total of 509 GB
> divided between several different LUN's.) It is possible to share the
> same
> drives with more than one server, however you can't share one LUN with
> more
> than 1 server.
> However we would have 1 virtual server accessing the original LUN of 175
> GB
> and the other virtual server accessing the newly created LUN of 225 GB--my
> only hang up being the fact that the 2 LUN's exist on the same set of 4
> drives and if you have 2 completely independent SQL servers accessing the
> same drives is it going to put a hurt on performance. Again, t-logs stay
> seperate (IE the 2 virtual servers would not be sharing the t-log drives,
> they would each have their seperate set of RAID 10 drives) so that is my
> only
> saving grace thinking this implementation may be possible.
> I am here because I need a second opinion (and 3rd or 4ths if possible)
> from
> some higher SQL guru's. I personally am the Net Admin so my SQL
> experience
> is not broad however I understand the concept of the SAN well and know
> what I
> am looking to do with the SQL servers.
> Thanks!
> "Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" wrote:
|||I don't have access to the tool you mentioned but will research it (Dell/EMC
is correct by the way). I still have the fear of affecting performance on
both virtual servers by forcing them to share the same 4 disks because RAID
10 is not even bulletproof enough to gurantee a good speed if we are high on
the disk I/O side. I didn't want to semi-blindly make a decision to purchase
another cabinet and additional drives...hence why I came out here looking to
see if a few MVP's reccomended against it. I figured real world experience
may help me in the decision.
Like I told Rodney, I know testing is in store for us--a smoking gun for the
decision. All I have now are my own opinions and reservations and that isn't
enough to guide my decision to spend or not spend money.
Thanks for the advice.
"Geoff N. Hiten" wrote:

> Even a SAN has a maximum I/O capacity. Whether you are I/O bound on the
> disks in question will determine whether using the remaining space will
> impact your current system performance. Your SAN vendor (EMC from the hints
> you dropped) should have tools (likely for an additional fee) that can
> measure IO at the LUN/RAID set/disk level. You will definitely need that
> capability in order to measure the impact of your proposed change. A quick
> test would be to run a simulated SQL I/O load on the newly created LUNs
> while monitoring I/O performance at the SQL, OS, and SAN levels. Do the
> same without the load and see how much you can get away with.
> Personally, I prefer to use LUNS that map one-to-one to RAID Sets, mostly to
> avoid this problem. Since that isn't a real option now, you may want to
> consider purchasing an additional drive tray. It isn't the cheapest
> solution, but it may be the most effective.
> BTW, you can share a LUN with more than one server. That is how a cluster
> is built. Access Logix whines about it but you can force it to do what you
> need. .
> --
> Geoff N. Hiten
> Senior Database Administrator
> Microsoft SQL Server MVP
>
> "skyline" <skyline@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:DA48AC82-6A9F-4738-BDB6-08D10D16EAB4@.microsoft.com...
>
>
|||I am speaking from experience here: spindle contention can big the BIGGEST
bottleneck to a SQL installation. Recommendation, be careful. I think you
are on the right track though. A few points to help guide you.
1. A physical spindle (real disk) has limited IOPS and bandwidth capacity,
anywhere between 75 and 150 IOPS (I/Os per second) theoretical maximum
sequential reads. Random reads and any type of writes decrease from there.
To overcome this limitation, Meta-volumes are constructed out of the RAID
sets/Hyper-volumes.
2. Whether or not these RAID sets from which you construct the Hyper and
Meta-volumes are dedicated to a single host, single activity (OS, swap file,
TLogs, Data Files, or TempDB) or shared among many hosts with similar or
varied activity (DBMSes, Messaging Server, File Server, Web Servers,
Application Servers, or Middleware components), the physical spindles retain
the same theoretical IOPS and bandwidth capacities. Make sure what you
construct can handle the anticipated loads: both in IOPS and total
throughput.
3. The various activities of all hosts as well as those of a particular host
need to be isolated: O/S, page file, Quorum, MS DTC, TLogs, Data Files,
TempDB, Exchange Server jet files, Web Server pages, etc. You could
however, create a large RAID set that could be shared across multiple hosts
from which you construct several Meta-volumes that are dedicated to, say,
page file space. The point is ISOLATE the TYPE of activity, then share with
as many hosts as the IOPS and bandwidth will support.
4. Some of the physical spindle limitations can be addressed through the SAN
cache, which can be configured fractionally as dedicated to Read and or
Write operations. This piece requires a detailed understanding of the SAN
configuration and the anticipated host activity, whether or not that
activity has been made homogeneous throughout the SAN or whether or not the
various activities have been segmented to dedicate RAID sets.
5. Consider the number of SAN fibre controllers and available ports, each
one has a theoretical limit that can be overloaded and the number limits the
total activity that can be assigned to a given SAN cabinet installation.
6. Network switches, each port and switch have theoretical limitations and
which will be serving up all connected hosts. The total usage must be
aggregated to properly configure.
7. HBAs on each host have limitations. Even if you go through all of the
trouble of isolating activity on the SAN, carving up and presented isolated
LUNs to each host dedicated to the separate activities, if you try to run
all of that through one or two HBAs, you may still cause the same sort of
contention. Seriously consider running Windows 2003 and using STORport
drivers over SCSIport minidrivers. You will also need to look into a MPIO
solution like Veritas Volume Manager or EMC Power Path. This will allow you
to leverage the bandwidth across all HBAs and allow you to get by with fewer
overall, not to mention this will provide you another
Single-Point-of-Failure isolation.
8. Finally, I've already said it, but it so important that I'm going to say
it again. Many engineers only aggregate and examine total bandwidth real
and/or anticipated consumption, in the components, networks, or storage
solutions. That is, size capacity and throughput. How much data do I need
to store and how much do I need to transfer per second. However, for a
heavily used OLTP system, size is less important. Number of concurrent
transactions, and thus IOPS, will be the limiting factor. I don't know how
many times I have asked my sub-system engineers to look into either the
network or storage components just to have them come back and tell me I am
only using 10% of the bandwidth or total storage capacity. To which I
respond, I am running over 1,000 TPS and up to 1,000,000 IOPS. The typical
response is "Huh?". Which is never a good response to hear in a crisis
situation.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Anthony Thomas

"skyline" <skyline@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9993F283-E654-4F30-8316-E491670CCF35@.microsoft.com...
> I don't have access to the tool you mentioned but will research it
(Dell/EMC
> is correct by the way). I still have the fear of affecting performance on
> both virtual servers by forcing them to share the same 4 disks because
RAID
> 10 is not even bulletproof enough to gurantee a good speed if we are high
on
> the disk I/O side. I didn't want to semi-blindly make a decision to
purchase
> another cabinet and additional drives...hence why I came out here looking
to
> see if a few MVP's reccomended against it. I figured real world
experience
> may help me in the decision.
> Like I told Rodney, I know testing is in store for us--a smoking gun for
the
> decision. All I have now are my own opinions and reservations and that
isn't[vbcol=seagreen]
> enough to guide my decision to spend or not spend money.
> Thanks for the advice.
> "Geoff N. Hiten" wrote:
hints[vbcol=seagreen]
that[vbcol=seagreen]
quick[vbcol=seagreen]
mostly to[vbcol=seagreen]
cluster[vbcol=seagreen]
you[vbcol=seagreen]
reserved[vbcol=seagreen]
GB[vbcol=seagreen]
175[vbcol=seagreen]
GB--my[vbcol=seagreen]
4[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
stay[vbcol=seagreen]
drives,[vbcol=seagreen]
my[vbcol=seagreen]
possible)[vbcol=seagreen]
with[vbcol=seagreen]
general[vbcol=seagreen]
much[vbcol=seagreen]
spending.[vbcol=seagreen]
more.[vbcol=seagreen]
environment.[vbcol=seagreen]
and[vbcol=seagreen]
to[vbcol=seagreen]
existing[vbcol=seagreen]
LUN.[vbcol=seagreen]
is[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
to[vbcol=seagreen]
using a[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
high[vbcol=seagreen]
have[vbcol=seagreen]
since[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
off).[vbcol=seagreen]
is[vbcol=seagreen]
If we[vbcol=seagreen]
have[vbcol=seagreen]
alone[vbcol=seagreen]
be[vbcol=seagreen]
that[vbcol=seagreen]
cabinet[vbcol=seagreen]
collection[vbcol=seagreen]
are[vbcol=seagreen]
|||Anthony,
This is exactly what I was looking for. We have dual HBA's using the
Storport driver and Powerpath on all of our SAN host servers so we are trying
to make the best of our fibre connections.
In the end I think that I may play it cautious and create a new RAID group,
move our SQL data over temporarily, and destroy/recreate the 4 disk RAID 10
into 2 RAID 10 groups with 2 drives a piece and then add 2 drives to our
remaining open slots and create a RAID 10 group out of them for the second
virtual servers t-logs.
My final decision will probably come based upon our drive usage analysis,
but as you said I am going to be careful

"Anthony Thomas" wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I am speaking from experience here: spindle contention can big the BIGGEST
> bottleneck to a SQL installation. Recommendation, be careful. I think you
> are on the right track though. A few points to help guide you.
> 1. A physical spindle (real disk) has limited IOPS and bandwidth capacity,
> anywhere between 75 and 150 IOPS (I/Os per second) theoretical maximum
> sequential reads. Random reads and any type of writes decrease from there.
> To overcome this limitation, Meta-volumes are constructed out of the RAID
> sets/Hyper-volumes.
> 2. Whether or not these RAID sets from which you construct the Hyper and
> Meta-volumes are dedicated to a single host, single activity (OS, swap file,
> TLogs, Data Files, or TempDB) or shared among many hosts with similar or
> varied activity (DBMSes, Messaging Server, File Server, Web Servers,
> Application Servers, or Middleware components), the physical spindles retain
> the same theoretical IOPS and bandwidth capacities. Make sure what you
> construct can handle the anticipated loads: both in IOPS and total
> throughput.
> 3. The various activities of all hosts as well as those of a particular host
> need to be isolated: O/S, page file, Quorum, MS DTC, TLogs, Data Files,
> TempDB, Exchange Server jet files, Web Server pages, etc. You could
> however, create a large RAID set that could be shared across multiple hosts
> from which you construct several Meta-volumes that are dedicated to, say,
> page file space. The point is ISOLATE the TYPE of activity, then share with
> as many hosts as the IOPS and bandwidth will support.
> 4. Some of the physical spindle limitations can be addressed through the SAN
> cache, which can be configured fractionally as dedicated to Read and or
> Write operations. This piece requires a detailed understanding of the SAN
> configuration and the anticipated host activity, whether or not that
> activity has been made homogeneous throughout the SAN or whether or not the
> various activities have been segmented to dedicate RAID sets.
> 5. Consider the number of SAN fibre controllers and available ports, each
> one has a theoretical limit that can be overloaded and the number limits the
> total activity that can be assigned to a given SAN cabinet installation.
> 6. Network switches, each port and switch have theoretical limitations and
> which will be serving up all connected hosts. The total usage must be
> aggregated to properly configure.
> 7. HBAs on each host have limitations. Even if you go through all of the
> trouble of isolating activity on the SAN, carving up and presented isolated
> LUNs to each host dedicated to the separate activities, if you try to run
> all of that through one or two HBAs, you may still cause the same sort of
> contention. Seriously consider running Windows 2003 and using STORport
> drivers over SCSIport minidrivers. You will also need to look into a MPIO
> solution like Veritas Volume Manager or EMC Power Path. This will allow you
> to leverage the bandwidth across all HBAs and allow you to get by with fewer
> overall, not to mention this will provide you another
> Single-Point-of-Failure isolation.
> 8. Finally, I've already said it, but it so important that I'm going to say
> it again. Many engineers only aggregate and examine total bandwidth real
> and/or anticipated consumption, in the components, networks, or storage
> solutions. That is, size capacity and throughput. How much data do I need
> to store and how much do I need to transfer per second. However, for a
> heavily used OLTP system, size is less important. Number of concurrent
> transactions, and thus IOPS, will be the limiting factor. I don't know how
> many times I have asked my sub-system engineers to look into either the
> network or storage components just to have them come back and tell me I am
> only using 10% of the bandwidth or total storage capacity. To which I
> respond, I am running over 1,000 TPS and up to 1,000,000 IOPS. The typical
> response is "Huh?". Which is never a good response to hear in a crisis
> situation.
> Hope this helps.
> Sincerely,
>
> Anthony Thomas
>
> --
> "skyline" <skyline@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:9993F283-E654-4F30-8316-E491670CCF35@.microsoft.com...
> (Dell/EMC
> RAID
> on
> purchase
> to
> experience
> the
> isn't
> hints
> that
> quick
> mostly to
> cluster
> you
> reserved
> GB
> 175
> GB--my
> 4
> the
> stay
> drives,
> my
> possible)
> with
> general
> much
> spending.
> more.
> environment.
> and
> to
> existing
> LUN.
> is
> the
> to
> using a
> the
> high
> have
> since
> the
|||Hi,
Could you indicate a good tool that perform IO Stress with SQL 2005 over
64-bit plataform? SQLIOStress isn′t fully compatible with that.
Thank you!
Luis

Thursday, March 29, 2012

Adding a resource (Generic Script) to the SQL Cluster

Tuesday, March 27, 2012

adding a new sql server node to an existing sql cluster

Adding a new node to an existing cluster

Adding a new node to a SQL server cluster

Adding a new node to a pre-existing sql2K cluster

Sunday, March 11, 2012

Add SQL Server 2005 nodes to a SQL2000 cluster

Add SAN Disk Resource to Active/Active SQL cluster

add Reporting Services to an existing cluster

Thursday, March 8, 2012

add Reporting Services to an existing cluster

Tuesday, March 6, 2012

Add new cluster and use existing LUN's?

Accessing more than

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